Kieser at the 2005 USA 8k Championships (Photo courtesy of Mensracing.com)Fred Kieser, current head coach of the cross country and track & field programs at Saint Joseph Academy High School in Cleveland, OH, competed at the 2000 and 2004 U.S. Olympic Marathon Trials placing 14th and 13th, respectively. A 1993 graduate of Miami University in Ohio, Kieser competes for Team Good River, an Elite Development Club in Ohio.
Interview by: Derick Lawrence (3/8/2008)
Interview by: Derick Lawrence (3/8/2008)
What initially caught your attention to compete in the marathon?
I went to Miami University, a program known for its mileage back in those days. We always joked that our training had us ready for a marathon if we just added a touch or two, so after I graduated I tried it. In my first marathon a few months after track ended I ran a 2:19:03 at Columbus (1993). That result was pretty good, but became a double-edged sword because I got pigeon-holed as a marathoner. From there I tried to qualify (unsuccessfully) for the 1996 Olympic Marathon Trials repeatedly.
Tell us about your collegiate running career at Miami University (OH) (’93). What were your personal records, most memorable moments, and accomplishments?
Running at Miami under Coach Chuck Zody was an eye-opening experience. I had no idea how many fast people there were in the world or how hard they trained. I went to a small high school, so the world of Division running in college was a shock to the system. It was rough at first, but looking back on it I wouldn’t trade it for anything. The mileage ethic will beat you down at first, but if you can make it then good things will happen. With regards to times I probably underachieved. On the track I usually only got one crack at chasing a time each season with good competition and not doubling in the 1500/5K or steeple/5K. I never was good at getting a fast time, but typically I placed well at the conference meet, which was clearly our focus. The big let down would be placing only 5th in the conference senior year, however the big enjoyment would be scoring 22 points at the outdoor MAC meet my senior year and helping our team breaking Eastern Michigan’s long string of team victories.
At the 2004 U.S. Olympic Team Trials- Men’s Marathon in Birmingham, Ala. you placed 13th with a time of 2:17:21. Could you describe this race for us and what the experience was like?
Kieser at the 2004 U.S. Olympic Marathon Trials. (Photo courtesy of Mensracing.com)
Regardless of what anyone says, I honestly believe a marathon well-run is a painful marathon. The trick is to train well ahead of time then use up all your energy during the race so that you finish on empty. Well, I finished beyond empty having croaked severely around mile 23 or 24. There’s nothing like the feeling of swinging iron gates for legs and cement blocks for arms…The race itself was exciting because other than Brian Sell, everybody stayed together for a long time. I remember thinking during the race to stay near the front of the big pack and not look back because seeing how many people were actually still together would’ve depressed me. After the race I saw pictures and indeed it was freakish how large (40+) our pack was. At mile 9 Alan Culpepper dropped a 4:40 mile and the whole pack disintegrated. I remember running a 4:50 mile and getting dropped. For a 5 mile stretch I ran 25:00 – way too fast, but everybody was doing. Probably the reason I died a too early death.
One of my memories of the race was see my friend, David Hunter, running around in clothes that looked like he came straight out of Goodwill. His flight the previous day was re-directed and his luggage didn’t arrive in time, so he was out there cheering hard and looking like a casualty of bum…too funny.
At the 2000 U.S. Marathon Olympic Trials in Pittsburgh, PA you placed 14th. How did you use that experience for the 2004 marathon trials? Did you alter your training after the 2000 marathon trials in preparation for the 2004 marathon trials?
The two Olympic Trials were complete opposites from each other. In 2004 we were wearing hat and gloves at the start because it was 30 degrees and windy in Alabama. Pittsburgh in 2000 was hot and humid. Both conditions probably favored someone like me because in either case I was never picked to finish high. I’m not an elite runner and I was never a threat to make the Olympic team. Knowing that going into the race allows an athlete to relax a little and soak up the role of spoiler. I knew that just by running smart/solid in both races I could place well. For me being top 15-20 was great, but so many guys going into those races were so hell-bent on being top 3 or top 10 (or trying to chase times) that they had a fatalistic approach to their races. I heard too many guys saying, “Well, I might as well go for it because I trained harder than ever for this.”
Pittsburgh was a hilly course in addition to the heat. I’ve had many friends tell me that they ran much further that day than I did because it was such an inconvenient spectator course. Undoubtedly that helped lead to 2004 having a criterium format. I remember before PIttsburgh there was much debate about changing the starting time, opening fire hydrants to spray us down, or possibly even putting the race off a day. I just remember some of the elites being a little punchy, but it was understandable because their whole careers were coming down to one race. You have to remember our country somehow got stuck needing guys to break 2:14 for the Olympic Standard. With hills and heat it was pretty apparent only the winner of the race was going to be sent to the Olympics. Again, it helped to be a long shot.
I wore shades in a race for the first time ever as well as a painters cap to help keep the feeling of being cool. I intentionally went to the back of the pack and hit the mile mark tied for last place. The first 10 miles the roads were wet and I remember having a hard time with footing. I also remember seeing Jerry Lawson, one of the race favorites at the time, pull out of the race. That actually inspired me because I knew if a sub 2:12 guy was hurting then I wasn’t the only one. Eventually I worked my way up to tenth place at mile 22, but then Clint Verran and two other fellas past me. There was nothing I could do at that point, but 14th was great. I had a lot of family, friends, and athletes from my team down to watch.
Could you outline your last two weeks of training leading up to the 2004 marathon trials?
For all my marathons the last two weeks are pretty similar. I’ll run around 70-75 miles two weeks out with a medium long run and a medium tempo run mixed in. The last 6 days are typically 5-7 miles easy. I’ll do one “simulation” run in which I try to run 4 miles in the way I hope to run the first 4 miles of a marathon. My opinion is you can only hurt yourself in the last two weeks, not help.
You are currently the head coach of the cross country and track & field programs at Saint Joseph Academy High School in Cleveland, OH. How have you applied your own training and experiences into the coaching of your athletes?
The one type of training I’ve really tried to apply to the team is threshold running. Some people might call this tempo running, but I’m just looking to boost their VO2 by training at threshold. I’m a mileage runner, but I don’t ask the team to run far. If there are athletes who are into it and can stay healthy, then I’ll let them get after it a little to see how it goes. For the most part I just want them to be well-rounded in their running so they can keep doing it and improving after high school. I think what helps the most is applying what I tell them to my own racing. I’d feel like a hypocrite if I preached to them to be tough or use good form if I don’t do those things myself.
What key concept(s) do you believe are necessary for success of a marathon runner?
Great question. Even though I have moved out of this style of training, I think a runner should train to be a 5k/10k guy then throw in some long runs to prepare for a marathon. That’s a bit simplified, but my point is too many runners go over board with long runs, mileage, and a slowed down pace (which is exactly what I’ve done the past 4 years). Marathon runners have to be careful because too many factors go into having a great RACE. You can have great fitness and a fast course, but if the weather is foul (like Chicago last year) then major adjustments, if not bailing all together) should be made. I’ve come to hate the “all the eggs in one basket” aura of the marathon. So my recommendation is to keep the speed and add mileage as necessary.
What key workout(s) or training element(s) did you incorporate into your marathon training?
I don’t think I did anything special for my training. I did long tempo runs once a week (10 miles or more), long runs of up to 22-23 miles every other week, repeat miles/3200’s every other week, and filled in the rest with recovery. I liked to use races to build confidence for training as well. Four weeks out from the goal marathon I tried to find a half-marathon to get a bead on what my fitness level was.
How important is recovery in your training regimen and how did you apply this to your training?
I’ve become a recovery junkie anymore. All I do is recover, and that has been my downfall. I think all the mileage and workouts over the years, not to mention having a job has slowed me down. I do know guys that don’t recover enough from their daily hammering and that holds them back come race day, but you can’t fault their desire to improve. My recovery pace varied depending strictly on how I felt. I was conscious of my pace, but if I needed 7:30’s then that’s what I did. I knew that I was fit when my recovery pace was in the mid 6’s.
What kept you motivated to train at a high level?
I had some goals that I wanted to accomplish in terms of times and places at different events – mostly in the shorter distances. However time and a lack of a suitable training system for those shorter races led me to train more effectively for the longer distances. For some reason I still believe I can run fast even in the 800 and mile, but at this point I think its safe to say my PR days are behind. Later in my career I found that I enjoyed traveling to the major races around the country like Houston, Jacksonville, etc…
What is the running environment like in Cleveland, OH? How important was it for you to find a training group post-collegiately?
There was a time when I was getting ready to leave Miami that I considered going to Fayetteville, Arkansas or even Boulder just to see if I could make the jump to the next level. I just didn’t think I was fast enough to make a life of running full time – I couldn’t justify it. Running in Cleveland is overall very good. There is a great system of parks to train in and a huge group of runners that have an enthusiasm for the sport. The only thing I missed out on was having training partners around that could hammer the workouts needed for great mile/5K training. The winters can be a little brutal for getting mileage in, but slowly I’m getting accustomed to running on treadmills. As I write this we’ve had nearly 2 feet of snow fall in the last 24 hours. All the roads are impassible and the gyms are closed, so great creativity for running is needed.
Tim Budic was a great uniting force in the area for a few years because he started a couple of running teams, first with Run-Insight.com, and now with TeamGoodRiver – an USATF elite development club that I race with.
What words of wisdom would you give to collegiate runners looking to take the step up to the marathon after graduation?
I would recommend choosing your first marathon wisely. Make sure you’re ready for it physically and you should probably have a coach for the first few to check your training and help set you up at the right pace. Don’t become an addict of the marathon though – keep working on your 5K/10K times.
Thanks to Fred for a great interview.
One of my memories of the race was see my friend, David Hunter, running around in clothes that looked like he came straight out of Goodwill. His flight the previous day was re-directed and his luggage didn’t arrive in time, so he was out there cheering hard and looking like a casualty of bum…too funny.
At the 2000 U.S. Marathon Olympic Trials in Pittsburgh, PA you placed 14th. How did you use that experience for the 2004 marathon trials? Did you alter your training after the 2000 marathon trials in preparation for the 2004 marathon trials?
The two Olympic Trials were complete opposites from each other. In 2004 we were wearing hat and gloves at the start because it was 30 degrees and windy in Alabama. Pittsburgh in 2000 was hot and humid. Both conditions probably favored someone like me because in either case I was never picked to finish high. I’m not an elite runner and I was never a threat to make the Olympic team. Knowing that going into the race allows an athlete to relax a little and soak up the role of spoiler. I knew that just by running smart/solid in both races I could place well. For me being top 15-20 was great, but so many guys going into those races were so hell-bent on being top 3 or top 10 (or trying to chase times) that they had a fatalistic approach to their races. I heard too many guys saying, “Well, I might as well go for it because I trained harder than ever for this.”
Pittsburgh was a hilly course in addition to the heat. I’ve had many friends tell me that they ran much further that day than I did because it was such an inconvenient spectator course. Undoubtedly that helped lead to 2004 having a criterium format. I remember before PIttsburgh there was much debate about changing the starting time, opening fire hydrants to spray us down, or possibly even putting the race off a day. I just remember some of the elites being a little punchy, but it was understandable because their whole careers were coming down to one race. You have to remember our country somehow got stuck needing guys to break 2:14 for the Olympic Standard. With hills and heat it was pretty apparent only the winner of the race was going to be sent to the Olympics. Again, it helped to be a long shot.
I wore shades in a race for the first time ever as well as a painters cap to help keep the feeling of being cool. I intentionally went to the back of the pack and hit the mile mark tied for last place. The first 10 miles the roads were wet and I remember having a hard time with footing. I also remember seeing Jerry Lawson, one of the race favorites at the time, pull out of the race. That actually inspired me because I knew if a sub 2:12 guy was hurting then I wasn’t the only one. Eventually I worked my way up to tenth place at mile 22, but then Clint Verran and two other fellas past me. There was nothing I could do at that point, but 14th was great. I had a lot of family, friends, and athletes from my team down to watch.
Could you outline your last two weeks of training leading up to the 2004 marathon trials?
For all my marathons the last two weeks are pretty similar. I’ll run around 70-75 miles two weeks out with a medium long run and a medium tempo run mixed in. The last 6 days are typically 5-7 miles easy. I’ll do one “simulation” run in which I try to run 4 miles in the way I hope to run the first 4 miles of a marathon. My opinion is you can only hurt yourself in the last two weeks, not help.
You are currently the head coach of the cross country and track & field programs at Saint Joseph Academy High School in Cleveland, OH. How have you applied your own training and experiences into the coaching of your athletes?
The one type of training I’ve really tried to apply to the team is threshold running. Some people might call this tempo running, but I’m just looking to boost their VO2 by training at threshold. I’m a mileage runner, but I don’t ask the team to run far. If there are athletes who are into it and can stay healthy, then I’ll let them get after it a little to see how it goes. For the most part I just want them to be well-rounded in their running so they can keep doing it and improving after high school. I think what helps the most is applying what I tell them to my own racing. I’d feel like a hypocrite if I preached to them to be tough or use good form if I don’t do those things myself.
What key concept(s) do you believe are necessary for success of a marathon runner?
Great question. Even though I have moved out of this style of training, I think a runner should train to be a 5k/10k guy then throw in some long runs to prepare for a marathon. That’s a bit simplified, but my point is too many runners go over board with long runs, mileage, and a slowed down pace (which is exactly what I’ve done the past 4 years). Marathon runners have to be careful because too many factors go into having a great RACE. You can have great fitness and a fast course, but if the weather is foul (like Chicago last year) then major adjustments, if not bailing all together) should be made. I’ve come to hate the “all the eggs in one basket” aura of the marathon. So my recommendation is to keep the speed and add mileage as necessary.
What key workout(s) or training element(s) did you incorporate into your marathon training?
I don’t think I did anything special for my training. I did long tempo runs once a week (10 miles or more), long runs of up to 22-23 miles every other week, repeat miles/3200’s every other week, and filled in the rest with recovery. I liked to use races to build confidence for training as well. Four weeks out from the goal marathon I tried to find a half-marathon to get a bead on what my fitness level was.
How important is recovery in your training regimen and how did you apply this to your training?
I’ve become a recovery junkie anymore. All I do is recover, and that has been my downfall. I think all the mileage and workouts over the years, not to mention having a job has slowed me down. I do know guys that don’t recover enough from their daily hammering and that holds them back come race day, but you can’t fault their desire to improve. My recovery pace varied depending strictly on how I felt. I was conscious of my pace, but if I needed 7:30’s then that’s what I did. I knew that I was fit when my recovery pace was in the mid 6’s.
What kept you motivated to train at a high level?
I had some goals that I wanted to accomplish in terms of times and places at different events – mostly in the shorter distances. However time and a lack of a suitable training system for those shorter races led me to train more effectively for the longer distances. For some reason I still believe I can run fast even in the 800 and mile, but at this point I think its safe to say my PR days are behind. Later in my career I found that I enjoyed traveling to the major races around the country like Houston, Jacksonville, etc…
What is the running environment like in Cleveland, OH? How important was it for you to find a training group post-collegiately?
There was a time when I was getting ready to leave Miami that I considered going to Fayetteville, Arkansas or even Boulder just to see if I could make the jump to the next level. I just didn’t think I was fast enough to make a life of running full time – I couldn’t justify it. Running in Cleveland is overall very good. There is a great system of parks to train in and a huge group of runners that have an enthusiasm for the sport. The only thing I missed out on was having training partners around that could hammer the workouts needed for great mile/5K training. The winters can be a little brutal for getting mileage in, but slowly I’m getting accustomed to running on treadmills. As I write this we’ve had nearly 2 feet of snow fall in the last 24 hours. All the roads are impassible and the gyms are closed, so great creativity for running is needed.
Tim Budic was a great uniting force in the area for a few years because he started a couple of running teams, first with Run-Insight.com, and now with TeamGoodRiver – an USATF elite development club that I race with.
What words of wisdom would you give to collegiate runners looking to take the step up to the marathon after graduation?
I would recommend choosing your first marathon wisely. Make sure you’re ready for it physically and you should probably have a coach for the first few to check your training and help set you up at the right pace. Don’t become an addict of the marathon though – keep working on your 5K/10K times.
Thanks to Fred for a great interview.
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